Blue goulds advice wanted

[gomer]

Picked up three blue cocks today,to go with my split blue cock.Hope to be picking up some hens later in the week.Do they need anymore vitamins than other finches. Any coments on Solaminovit Liquid by Allfarm Animal Health.I had never heard of it untill today.

[AMCA26]

I read your other article on the Blues. With the pairs i bought was told to never put Blue to Blue always go with a Split. My pairs are Split cock and Blue hen. I got back from Brisbane yesterday and from one pair have 2 young to my surprise with 4 more eggs but not sure if fertile and these are last years young.
Again i have a Pastel cock to a Yellow Split Blue hen, and was told never put the Pastel to a Blue.

[bluebutterfly213]

I did read that Blue backed gouldians cant produce their own Vitamin A.
Dont know if this is true or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouldian_Finch

also mentioned here
http://www.avianweb.com/gouldianfinch.html

Yet another site mentions carotenoids

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8aart/id25.html

Not heard of Solaminovit Liquid.

Edited......just did a quick Google on the above.

http://www.allfarm.com.au/index.php?pag ... &prodid=89

Vit A is the first item on the list of ingredients

[nixity]

Let's not forget that Wikipedia is edited and content added by individuals, not necessarily referenced or always accurate.

The idea that blue gouldians can not produce their own Vitamin A has never been documented or proven.

From everything I have read, they are basing this off the White/Albino canaries which seemingly can not manufacture Vit A in the body.

The logic behind it is that a blue gouldian, genetically, can not produce "carotene" pigments which is what makes the bird visually blue. Ordinarily, the presence of lutein absorbed from foods results in a yellow color that visually mixes with the base melanin and structural blue in feathers resulting in the "green" body color we see.
A blue gouldian is the result of an inability to process lutein (a carotene color) and the bird ends up looking visually blue as a result.
However - carotenes are not completely blocked because we still see a reddish/orangeish color expressed in the head. It is only partially inhibited, not completely.
So the assumption is the entire metabolic pathway is effected, but unless it's research, it is all just that - an assumption.

There have been cases of lutino cardinals (the carotene that results in the "red" color cannot be processed in the body, so the bird appears yellowish) and the metabolism of Vitamin A was not affected - just the deposition of the pigment itself.
So, to me, it is entirely likely that in a blue gouldian the only thing affected, again, the actual pigment deposition and not the entire metabolic pathway (beta carotene is converted to vitamin A in the small intestine, but this is only one way Vitamin A can be obtained).

If it IS true, a vitamin A supplement in the form of a powder will not be sufficient.
It has to be a PRO-vitamin A which has to come in the form of an animal protein - and this is usually accomplished by adding Cod Liver Oil to seed or egg food.

Personally, I have never supplemented my blues with Pro-Vitamin A and I have never seen any adverse health effects as a result.

Let's also not forget that Vitamin A is fat soluble and it's easy to give birds TOO much causing hypervitaminosis.

[MLaRue]

I've always heard that the Blues in Australia are not as vast as they are here in the US. I wonder if there is a difference between the two? Why is it harder for them to breed and keep in general husbandry? Or is this only in certain areas of Australia?

[gomer]

They were most likley taken from Australia not long after it was discovered.And I beleive they were still being exported into the eightys ?.And therefore established in aviarys, Around the world by people who already had good avian skills to breed birds.I would think there would be many more goulds in the U.S.A than here,therefore a larger gene pool.

[nixity]

That's my guess as well - I actually thought the first blues were really produced in Belgium and then exported to the US, after the export/import ban in AUS had been introduced.

So I think the bigger issue is that the blues that have been produced in AU are all from a very small gene pool of birds.. :\

But hey - they have Aus Yellows and we don't, isn't that a fair trade off?!
Just kidding.. but I would love to have some Aus Yellows

[AMCA26]

Off the topic a bit, but saying you dont have the Australian Yellow i think its time they lifted the Import and Export ban for 12months and look at geting other birds in and out that are rare and that are in trouble in the wild and save some of these birds. The Zoos do it why cant the Aviculture. Even if its only 6months and do it every 10years or something. I think it needs to open up and as you say you can broaden the gene pools in every bird.
Its something that does need looking at.

[gomer]

Sure would help the gene pool.You would need to control whats going out,Just to make sure you arnt narrowing the gene pool.Just look at the numbers of cubans and redface going out.Seems to be alot.

[finchbreeder]

As long as a customs quarantine is exercised with what comes in, to keep Australia's reputation for disese free. It would make perfect sence to import those birds that are more prolific overseas and export those that are more prolific here.
Time we all got elected to the government and changed the laws.
LML